Man this team is so wild. My wife asked me last night if the Vikings were going to be good this year and I was speechless for like 90 seconds trying to figure out how to best use this brief glorious window in which I was invited to talk Vikings to discuss the choose-your-own-adventure nature of this team that has equal odds of the hero getting the girl or end up being impaled in the stake pit. I still am hoping for something to emerge at the other defensive end spot, but frankly if this Pierce hype when combined with the Hunter hype is legit (before we even get to Tomlinson and Richardson and our stable of depth pieces with rushing potential), we could probably put my 10 year old nephew at RDE and he'll come home with 7 sacks.
As far as Griffen, I am lukewarm on bringing him in, and in general I feel like it says way more about Weatherly than it does Wonnum. I imagine that the Vikings wanted Weatherly to be an averagish starter that Wonnum et al. could push, and I haven't heard the coaches say anything legit negative about Wonnum, but rather than keep on saying that he is developing well. Also, to me it indicates that Zimmer is kind of done treating Cousins with kid gloves (given Griffen's rather blunt comparison of Kirk to a choice body part earlier this offseason), which is yet another amusing development that has a chance to backfire spectacularly.
And for Mond, him splitting time with the 2nd team yesterday was massive and quite unexpected. I think that Zimmer realized after the preseason game that Browning wasn't good enough to be a Mannion-esque boring yet competent backup, and as such decided that it might make more sense to lean into the variance of Mond (annoying that he would never lean into the Kirk as Matthew has asked for, but leaning into any QB would be a welcome change) rather than just stay with a backup QB that was almost certainly not good enough to move the needle (which royally stinks - Browning was a great storyline, and it was fun to cheer for him). I bet that if Mond doesn't absolutely poop the bed over the next few practices that he has even odds of being the #2 QB this weekend (which would be another example of Zimmer not protecting Kirk).
I am excited about the D-lines potential and the linebackers, a little worried about the corners. I don't know what to say about Griffen but I do believe you are spot on that considering Griffen for a contract is much more a statement about Weatherly than Wonnum. I have no issue with considering Griffen as an upgrade to Weatherly. What I do have a problem with is that here we are again considering an addition to the D-line when the O-line is held together with 2nd hand duc tape. At some point someone needs to actually accept that we need the O-line to succeed. I realize Zimmer doesn't care for Cousins but without stellar play from 3 of the 5 who either haven't played the position recently or are normally considered backups, Cousins could get killed. Might improve his off schedule play because he'll be running for his life but I can't think of anything else positive about continuing to focus on the D-line and neglecting the O-line in remarkable proportion.
I'm with you on Mond. I just hope he applies everything he has to become the starter at some point. I have to close my ears to Cousin's comments and personality to maintain at least a modicum of enthusiasm for this year. How confident are you in Mond having the appropriate tutoring to excel quickly?
Hah, I hear you on having to just close my ears to Cousins to try to keep myself excited. That damn goon just defies all efforts that I have made to get behind him.
My hope and confidence with Mond is somewhat convoluted - basically, I think it is unlikely that he will be a true-long term starter, such that I am (trying) not to hope or plan for him to become a long term starter. That said, the league is catering to young QBs more than ever before, such that there are myriad examples of mobile young QBs having a streaky/hot start before the league figures out what they do and don't do well, and then playing defense against them in such a way that it takes away these strengths and baits them into the weaknesses, in effect neutering these QBs. This can take the form of an young MVP QB becoming just generally good (Lamar), making a very good QB into a lower tier starting QB (Kaep), turning a streaky sometimes good/sometimes bad QB into just a straight bad/backup QB (True Biscuit), or the like. This is different from how we used to do things, where we didn't try to make things "easy" on rookie QBs but instead we would just demand that they basically do everything, and they immediately sunk or swam (and if they sank we knew that they had a masters in QBing by the end). Now often young QBs will look great for between 4 games to maybe 20 games before suddenly being knocked down a tier. Think of Goff turning back to a pumpkin, Mayfield looking great then average, Minchew having a great moment before lapsing, arguably Jalen Hurts's performance last year, etc., etc.
(Incidentally, I have a theory that this will mean that the NFL will be increasingly likely to get young QBs that "hit" at least for the rookie contract, but then the 20 year QB starter will become increasingly rare, as we are less likely to throw a bunch at our rookie QBs so that they learn everything and become the cerebral giants like Brady, Manning, Brees, etc., and also we are less likely to stick with a struggling young QB as they learn given that it will be easier to have a young QB that "hits" for at least a few season (think of someone like Eli Manning, who never got pushed for a job even though he didn't have a top-10 passer rating until his 8th year, and only finished in the top half of the league in passer rating one year in his first 8).)
All that said, and I actually am excited about the possibility of Mond going on one of those hot streaks for us. He has all of the requisite components, from the NFL-caliber arm to the mobility to the leadership (by all accounts he is a great locker room guy) to the football IQ to go on a miracle run with us. Moreover, some of the biggest things that he needs (reading a defense at the appropriate speed, footwork) are actually things that Kirk does well such that he could learn that from Kirk, and having him paired up with our well-regarded QB coach (Andrew Janocko, who has been compared to 2017-era Stefanski) puts him in good place to learn and get the tutoring that he needs.
Realistically, this is what I am excited about - that this year Mond develops those things that legit held him going into the draft (primarily footwork and release), next year we trade away Kirk and bring in a reliable journeyman to start week 1 (someone like Dalton), this Dalton journeyman starts the season going something like 3-3 for us, and then Mond comes in and takes our now-stable OL and still great defense and has a hot streak and we go 9-2 with Mond (for a full record of 12-5) and then have a deep playoff run. Beyond that? Honestly, I don't know. Another version of this has Mond starting for us in, say, November because of some weird situation, but Kirk has been such an ironman that it is difficult to see that happening. Anything beyond that would just feel like a cherry on top. I am mainly just wanting things to line up for Mond and the Vikings to capitalize on this modern trends of young QBs going on a hot streak before the league figures them out.
I'm completely with you on Cousins. I've tried every angle to get behind the guy but he's so focused on himself the gravitational pull blocks all light out from anything else haha.
The pattern you are suggesting very well could be the pattern of the future if for no other reason the teams don't spend near the money on those young QBs that could be rotated... burn one down, get the next, rinse repeat. It would stink for the fans I would think but not necessarily from a business standpoint. You would have to be lucky to an extent to have it work out but it definitely would be cheaper in the short run.
When I think of where Mond could go, I think of Aaron Rogers first few years where they changed his throwing motion and his footwork. Mond doesn't have the arm Rogers does and may not be as athletically gifted (I haven't researched that) but the process that brought Rogers to where he is included a significant amount of waiting behind Bret and good QB coaching. I'm not sure the Vikings even have good QB coaching. If they can fix that hitch in his throwing motion and spend some time on the footwork, I believe the future is wide open for him with two major caveats... He needs a consistent and effective QB coach who gets how he thinks and he has to apply himself fully to the process. I think he's already working on the second. He seems pretty intelligent and has proven he can be coached. I do agree the probability of becoming a top 10 starter is a loooong shot and I don't know if one year behind Cousins is enough.
In any case, thanks for the dialogue. I appreciate it :)
This isn't on your list of additional notes Matthew, but you and Courtney brought up something on this morning's podcast that I've been thinking about ever since making my critical comments about Mike Zimmer's demeanor after the Broncos game.
The more I parse out those absurdly candid comments of Zimmer's, the more I think there's a serious divide between he and Rick Spielman. I don't think this is a minor issue for the problem to be manifesting in public the way it is. It makes me wonder if both men are pointing at each other and looking at the Wilfs saying "Hey, I just buy/coach the groceries, I didn't get to choose/coach them."
I won't pretend to know if the Vikings bad run of being unable to hit on late round draft picks is a coaching or talent evaluation issue, but it's very bothersome to me that Zimmer would make this public. Aside from it being unprofessional (imho), it tells me that there's a serious relationship problem between these two men and it makes me wonder if one of them will be out the door this season even if the Vikings have a respectable year.
Griffen back in Purple... Hmmmm... I suppose if they ensure he's on his meds, he won't publicly comment on Cousin's stellar qualifications. But, at times I do wonder if Griffen played better when he was OFF his meds?
It always seemed inevitable to me that Griffen would be back this year. He wants back, the Vikings need edge help and if you take a deep look at Griffen's stats last year, it's obvious he has gas in the tank despite the middling surface stats.
Besides, I get the impression that for better or for worse, Mike Zimmer does not care if Cousins' feathers get ruffled about anything.
Man this team is so wild. My wife asked me last night if the Vikings were going to be good this year and I was speechless for like 90 seconds trying to figure out how to best use this brief glorious window in which I was invited to talk Vikings to discuss the choose-your-own-adventure nature of this team that has equal odds of the hero getting the girl or end up being impaled in the stake pit. I still am hoping for something to emerge at the other defensive end spot, but frankly if this Pierce hype when combined with the Hunter hype is legit (before we even get to Tomlinson and Richardson and our stable of depth pieces with rushing potential), we could probably put my 10 year old nephew at RDE and he'll come home with 7 sacks.
As far as Griffen, I am lukewarm on bringing him in, and in general I feel like it says way more about Weatherly than it does Wonnum. I imagine that the Vikings wanted Weatherly to be an averagish starter that Wonnum et al. could push, and I haven't heard the coaches say anything legit negative about Wonnum, but rather than keep on saying that he is developing well. Also, to me it indicates that Zimmer is kind of done treating Cousins with kid gloves (given Griffen's rather blunt comparison of Kirk to a choice body part earlier this offseason), which is yet another amusing development that has a chance to backfire spectacularly.
And for Mond, him splitting time with the 2nd team yesterday was massive and quite unexpected. I think that Zimmer realized after the preseason game that Browning wasn't good enough to be a Mannion-esque boring yet competent backup, and as such decided that it might make more sense to lean into the variance of Mond (annoying that he would never lean into the Kirk as Matthew has asked for, but leaning into any QB would be a welcome change) rather than just stay with a backup QB that was almost certainly not good enough to move the needle (which royally stinks - Browning was a great storyline, and it was fun to cheer for him). I bet that if Mond doesn't absolutely poop the bed over the next few practices that he has even odds of being the #2 QB this weekend (which would be another example of Zimmer not protecting Kirk).
I just wish my wife was interested in football enough to ask me if I think the Vikings will be good this year :(
Oh trust me, her interest was entirely polite/feigned, and soon upon getting my (prolonged) answer she regretted asking the question.
lol with this team, no wife will make that mistake a 2nd time. I mean honestly, how the hell do you answer that question this year?
I am excited about the D-lines potential and the linebackers, a little worried about the corners. I don't know what to say about Griffen but I do believe you are spot on that considering Griffen for a contract is much more a statement about Weatherly than Wonnum. I have no issue with considering Griffen as an upgrade to Weatherly. What I do have a problem with is that here we are again considering an addition to the D-line when the O-line is held together with 2nd hand duc tape. At some point someone needs to actually accept that we need the O-line to succeed. I realize Zimmer doesn't care for Cousins but without stellar play from 3 of the 5 who either haven't played the position recently or are normally considered backups, Cousins could get killed. Might improve his off schedule play because he'll be running for his life but I can't think of anything else positive about continuing to focus on the D-line and neglecting the O-line in remarkable proportion.
I'm with you on Mond. I just hope he applies everything he has to become the starter at some point. I have to close my ears to Cousin's comments and personality to maintain at least a modicum of enthusiasm for this year. How confident are you in Mond having the appropriate tutoring to excel quickly?
Hah, I hear you on having to just close my ears to Cousins to try to keep myself excited. That damn goon just defies all efforts that I have made to get behind him.
My hope and confidence with Mond is somewhat convoluted - basically, I think it is unlikely that he will be a true-long term starter, such that I am (trying) not to hope or plan for him to become a long term starter. That said, the league is catering to young QBs more than ever before, such that there are myriad examples of mobile young QBs having a streaky/hot start before the league figures out what they do and don't do well, and then playing defense against them in such a way that it takes away these strengths and baits them into the weaknesses, in effect neutering these QBs. This can take the form of an young MVP QB becoming just generally good (Lamar), making a very good QB into a lower tier starting QB (Kaep), turning a streaky sometimes good/sometimes bad QB into just a straight bad/backup QB (True Biscuit), or the like. This is different from how we used to do things, where we didn't try to make things "easy" on rookie QBs but instead we would just demand that they basically do everything, and they immediately sunk or swam (and if they sank we knew that they had a masters in QBing by the end). Now often young QBs will look great for between 4 games to maybe 20 games before suddenly being knocked down a tier. Think of Goff turning back to a pumpkin, Mayfield looking great then average, Minchew having a great moment before lapsing, arguably Jalen Hurts's performance last year, etc., etc.
(Incidentally, I have a theory that this will mean that the NFL will be increasingly likely to get young QBs that "hit" at least for the rookie contract, but then the 20 year QB starter will become increasingly rare, as we are less likely to throw a bunch at our rookie QBs so that they learn everything and become the cerebral giants like Brady, Manning, Brees, etc., and also we are less likely to stick with a struggling young QB as they learn given that it will be easier to have a young QB that "hits" for at least a few season (think of someone like Eli Manning, who never got pushed for a job even though he didn't have a top-10 passer rating until his 8th year, and only finished in the top half of the league in passer rating one year in his first 8).)
All that said, and I actually am excited about the possibility of Mond going on one of those hot streaks for us. He has all of the requisite components, from the NFL-caliber arm to the mobility to the leadership (by all accounts he is a great locker room guy) to the football IQ to go on a miracle run with us. Moreover, some of the biggest things that he needs (reading a defense at the appropriate speed, footwork) are actually things that Kirk does well such that he could learn that from Kirk, and having him paired up with our well-regarded QB coach (Andrew Janocko, who has been compared to 2017-era Stefanski) puts him in good place to learn and get the tutoring that he needs.
Realistically, this is what I am excited about - that this year Mond develops those things that legit held him going into the draft (primarily footwork and release), next year we trade away Kirk and bring in a reliable journeyman to start week 1 (someone like Dalton), this Dalton journeyman starts the season going something like 3-3 for us, and then Mond comes in and takes our now-stable OL and still great defense and has a hot streak and we go 9-2 with Mond (for a full record of 12-5) and then have a deep playoff run. Beyond that? Honestly, I don't know. Another version of this has Mond starting for us in, say, November because of some weird situation, but Kirk has been such an ironman that it is difficult to see that happening. Anything beyond that would just feel like a cherry on top. I am mainly just wanting things to line up for Mond and the Vikings to capitalize on this modern trends of young QBs going on a hot streak before the league figures them out.
I'm completely with you on Cousins. I've tried every angle to get behind the guy but he's so focused on himself the gravitational pull blocks all light out from anything else haha.
The pattern you are suggesting very well could be the pattern of the future if for no other reason the teams don't spend near the money on those young QBs that could be rotated... burn one down, get the next, rinse repeat. It would stink for the fans I would think but not necessarily from a business standpoint. You would have to be lucky to an extent to have it work out but it definitely would be cheaper in the short run.
When I think of where Mond could go, I think of Aaron Rogers first few years where they changed his throwing motion and his footwork. Mond doesn't have the arm Rogers does and may not be as athletically gifted (I haven't researched that) but the process that brought Rogers to where he is included a significant amount of waiting behind Bret and good QB coaching. I'm not sure the Vikings even have good QB coaching. If they can fix that hitch in his throwing motion and spend some time on the footwork, I believe the future is wide open for him with two major caveats... He needs a consistent and effective QB coach who gets how he thinks and he has to apply himself fully to the process. I think he's already working on the second. He seems pretty intelligent and has proven he can be coached. I do agree the probability of becoming a top 10 starter is a loooong shot and I don't know if one year behind Cousins is enough.
In any case, thanks for the dialogue. I appreciate it :)
This isn't on your list of additional notes Matthew, but you and Courtney brought up something on this morning's podcast that I've been thinking about ever since making my critical comments about Mike Zimmer's demeanor after the Broncos game.
The more I parse out those absurdly candid comments of Zimmer's, the more I think there's a serious divide between he and Rick Spielman. I don't think this is a minor issue for the problem to be manifesting in public the way it is. It makes me wonder if both men are pointing at each other and looking at the Wilfs saying "Hey, I just buy/coach the groceries, I didn't get to choose/coach them."
I won't pretend to know if the Vikings bad run of being unable to hit on late round draft picks is a coaching or talent evaluation issue, but it's very bothersome to me that Zimmer would make this public. Aside from it being unprofessional (imho), it tells me that there's a serious relationship problem between these two men and it makes me wonder if one of them will be out the door this season even if the Vikings have a respectable year.
Sure looks that way from time to time Finchy74. I would love to know what the Wilf's actually think in all of this.
Griffen back in Purple... Hmmmm... I suppose if they ensure he's on his meds, he won't publicly comment on Cousin's stellar qualifications. But, at times I do wonder if Griffen played better when he was OFF his meds?
lol right?
It always seemed inevitable to me that Griffen would be back this year. He wants back, the Vikings need edge help and if you take a deep look at Griffen's stats last year, it's obvious he has gas in the tank despite the middling surface stats.
Besides, I get the impression that for better or for worse, Mike Zimmer does not care if Cousins' feathers get ruffled about anything.